Ontarians are heading to the polls on Feb. 27 to elect the province’s 44th government after Premier Doug Ford called a snap election. The Conservative leader, who has twice been elected since taking office in 2018, says he need a new four-year mandate to take on U.S. President Donald Trump and his threats of crippling import tariffs that, Ford warns, could cost Ontario half a million jobs.
Amidst debates over tariffs and inflation, however, Jewish topics aren’t getting much attention. Which party would most value protecting synagogues and Jewish schools from vandalism and protest? Which party would tackle anti-Zionism in public schools? Which party would address campus antisemitism?
For answers, we turn to a special Ontario edition of The CJN Daily‘s political panel. Today we’re joined by Ari Laskin, a former Conservative political staffer and strategist in Premier Doug Ford’s office—who, in 2014, happened to run the current Liberal leader Bonnie Crombie’s successful campaign for mayor of Mississauga—and Emma Cunningham, a former Ontario NDP riding president who left that party over its refusal to tackle internal antisemitism.
Transcript
Note: Transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors.
Ellin Bessner: Welcome to The CJN Daily, both of you.
Emma Cunningham: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Ellin Bessner: You know our longtime political correspondent, Emma, and first time on with Ari Laskin. But our listeners should know that it’s not just that he’s a Conservative Party of Ontario, PC Party of Ontario insider, but he’s intimately familiar with the election campaign of Bonnie Crombie because he ran it in 2014 when she became mayor for the first time in Mississauga. So you’re doing double duty here. We’re lucky to have you.
Ari Laskin: Thank you. I’m very happy to be here.
Ellin Bessner: Well, we’re taping within the last few days before the election day. What are the polls showing?
Emma Cunningham: I believe the last polls did show that the PCs are still looking to come in. Liberals are catching up. It looks like they’re going to likely take the official opposition spot away from the NDP, who is polling a bit behind. But both the Liberals and the NDP do appear to be climbing while the PCs appear to be declining. So with still about a week to go, we’ll see what happens.
Ellin Bessner: Was this expected that the Ontario NDP was the official opposition, but now the newcomer, Bonnie Crombie, has changed the playing field?
Ari Laskin: I think that’s a very good question. I think Bonnie has done a pretty good job at trying to make some inroads into that. She even tried to appeal to the New Democrats, saying, if you have voted New Democrat before, now I’m asking you to vote for the Liberals, especially with an election campaign that for all intents and purposes, we’re not going to be looking at a very high voter turnout. So, in this case, every vote really does count, and it’s really going to come down to those get-out-the-vote machines of all the campaigns out there to see who they’re going to be able to really rally to come to the polls.
Emma Cunningham: I found it really interesting that Bonnie was taking that route of appealing to NDP voters because when she was campaigning to be the leader of the Liberal Party, one of the things she campaigned on was saying that she felt the Liberals had drifted too far to the left. So I find it fascinating that here we are now, and she’s appealing to those left-wing voters to come to a party she said she shifted to the right. I think a lot of this is a bit of a personality play in that Bonnie has a very strong one and I think Marit Stiles [NDP leader] has struggled to define herself and struggled to find her place. Many voters are still fairly unfamiliar with her, which after this amount of time in the official opposition shouldn’t be the case. So, I think that is partly why they’re slipping out of that second spot as well into the third spot. So that would be kind of my take on it.
Ellin Bessner: A lot of the rhetoric we see comes out of the very few debates that happen. But whenever they’re allowed to have local debates, it’s always “the Trudeau Liberal”. Bonnie Crombie, “the Trudeau Liberal”. Sam Nestico was called this. I mean, most people who’ve taken high school civics know that it’s not the same level of government. Are the Ontario PCs using this to smear anybody who has “L” Liberal in their name with the visceral hate for the Liberal leader of Canada and tarring them, even though it’s completely not the same party?
Ari Laskin: No, it’s not the same party. That’s absolutely correct that you’re looking at a federal Liberal Party versus a provincial Liberal Party with the Ontario Liberal Party. But I will say, if you look at Bonnie Crombie’s political history, she started off as a federal Liberal MP. She was a very strong supporter of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, especially during his bid in the Liberal leadership race when he was trying to become the leader, and successfully. So, it’s telling that the first person who called her after she won the mayoral race was Justin Trudeau. I remember taking that call and passing it over. I’m not so sure that you’re looking at two different parties in this case. I think that there are going to be a lot of similarities in terms of the talking points that are coming out. So, is that comparison not accurate? I don’t know if I would say that.
Ellin Bessner: Well, it’s a campaign tactic and it seems to be working. If you repeat it long enough, people will forget. But I do want to talk to you about Bonnie Crombie because we know about Doug Ford. Which of the two leaders do you think is more aligned in their party positions and support for Jewish issues? We’re not talking about Marit Stiles and the NDP because no one wants to vote for them. I shouldn’t say no one. Many people hate them for their stance on Israel. And we’ll talk about that in a minute. But in terms of The Canadian Jewish News, tell us about… Ari, you go first, tell us about the candidates you know and who is the most in line with what Jewish people and Jewish voters want.
Ari Laskin: I would honestly say that I really do think that the Progressive Conservatives in this case do have more of the Jewish community in mind. Now, that’s not to say the party is perfect. I don’t know any political party that is ever going to be perfect. But I always remember a lesson that my first boss taught me. Nobody wakes up in Ontario and says, “How can I make Ontario worse?” Just like nobody wakes up in Ontario and says, “How can I make this a worse province for one community or another?” In this case, the Conservatives have taken a very reasoned approach and have tried to put forward legislation and policies that are in line with protecting the Jewish community and protecting the Jewish community’s interests. Premier Ford has been very vocal about making sure that the hostages are released when questions have been asked for. But that’s a federal jurisdiction. It’s something that the province is able to support and lend their support to. I was very pleased to see that Premier Ford put forward an order in council to get the IHRA definition of antisemitism put forward as a resolution in the legislature. That’s something that we had not seen in other jurisdictions, and it showed real leadership on this file.
Ellin Bessner: Do you want to jump in Emma, before I go back to Ari?
Emma Cunningham: So there’s been a few policy-related issues that I’ve seen. I know that the Ontario Liberal Party has talked about banning what they’re calling hate-motivated activities or protests that incite violence or intimidation near a place like a synagogue, a school, childcare centre, or hospitals. They haven’t tagged it specifically to the Jewish community. Rather, they’ve left it at hate-motivated incidents rather than specifically calling out antisemitism. But we know what it means. We know B’nai B’rith has been talking about this. So while it certainly applies to other communities, Islamophobia obviously is on the rise as well and their mosques need to be protected. But for sure, legislation like that would be very beneficial to the Jewish community. At this time, Conservatives focused more in their platform on law enforcement and being able to crack down on hate incidents, things like protests, things like rallies where there is hate and not just valid criticism. So they’ve talked about it more from a police perspective. NDP has not said anything to anyone. If the Green Party has, then I unfortunately missed it, which is surprising because I voted Green last provincial election, but I have not seen one come out from the Green Party. So that’s my take on the three parties right now and what they’re proposing to do for our community and others.
Ellin Bessner: Going back to what you said, Ari, about Premier Ford, between Premier Ford and Bonnie Crombie, who has been courting the Jewish community more in the election, if at all, or before?
Ari Laskin: I would say Premier Ford has probably done the most courting, if you will, not just on the antisemitism aspect, but ensuring that there is support for various organizations. So funding for the Reena Foundation, which is a fantastic organization, I have to say, ensuring that there is support for not just issues for our community, but items that are important to grow our family and to ensure that our families are able to succeed and thrive in Ontario. I haven’t really seen a whole lot from the Liberal camp on it. I know that they are targeting what we call the Bathurst corridor in the Toronto area that has Thornhill, York Centre, and Eglinton-Lawrence and a lot of the Jewish community in Toronto, but I haven’t really seen a whole lot of inroads being made on that side.
Ellin Bessner: I mean, you should mention, to be fair, that the Ford government implemented mandatory Holocaust education earlier in Grade 6 and Grade 10. I’m not going to do your job for you, but also giving tons of money to the Toronto Holocaust Centre that was opened in June 2023. I’ve seen Doug Ford at the Oct. 7. 2024 anniversary rally where he didn’t speak, but he and many of his ministers were there. He’s been to the Israeli consulate every Hanukkah, and he always speaks about how his support is for the Jewish community and Israel. However, it’s done privately and it isn’t reported.
Ari Laskin: Yeah.
Ellin Bessner: Emma would you like to have seen, our voters would have liked to have seen even more standing up? It’s one thing to do it privately, but forcefully and publicly.
Emma Cunningham: I think both is important. I think reaching out privately to communities is invaluable. My synagogue is in Whitby, and the Whitby MPP, Lorne Coe, is in my synagogue almost as often as I am. And he’s not Jewish. He is just constantly there, a constant presence, and a constant ally, he made friends with the entire community. He’s there a lot, and I think that means a lot to the Jews in Whitby. He also gets up in the legislature and champions Jewish issues, and that’s really valuable to us to see that we have an ally speaking out for us. So I think both are quite valuable because it’s nice to see that it’s not always performative, that things are done behind the scenes that aren’t just blasted out for a press release. And it’s important to have that public statement as well, that you’re, you know, you’re not ashamed to be affiliated with the Jewish community. So I think there’s a lot to be said for both sides, and I wouldn’t want to see one without the other.
Ellin Bessner: So who are the candidates that we should be watching from The Canadian Jewish News? Either Jewish or in Jewish areas, or not Jewish, but don’t want them to get elected. So that’s a Hamilton question.
Ari Laskin: Yeah. Like, I think if you’re looking at the Bathurst corridor, as I mentioned earlier, you have folks like Michelle Cooper, who’s running in Eglinton-Lawrence previously was represented by Robin Martin, who was a fantastic and a very strong advocate for the Jewish community. I still remember Robin standing up and condemning Sarah Jama for wearing that appalling headscarf in the legislature. If you’re looking at that race with Michelle Cooper and Vince Gasparro right now, Michelle has been a very, very strong supporter from the Jewish community. She started off in Thornhill through the fundraising community up there. If you want to continue up Bathurst, going north, if you will, just north of there we have York Centre. Minister Michael Kerzner, who is the Solicitor General, has been a very strong person in terms of ensuring that our frontline officers and frontline first responders have the tools that they need to be effective in their jobs. And that also extends to ensuring that there is proper security in place for important institutions. It is a very important thing, and it is something that I’m watching very closely.
Ellin Bessner: Before you go up any further, so he’s running against a former justice of the peace, Sam Nestico, who accused him of doing nothing for the Jewish community and for blaming Ottawa for all the problems and literally doing nothing. This was Feb. 12. So is Kerzner likely to get reelected anyway?
Ari Laskin: I think he will get reelected. I don’t know if I would take that criticism quite seriously. I would argue that Michael Kerzner, as the Solicitor General, has done a lot for the Jewish community and he’s done stuff both publicly and privately. So I don’t think that’s a fair criticism.
Ellin Bessner: Up Bathurst you go.
Ari Laskin: Up Bathurst, I go. If I continue up Bathurst, If I continue up Bathurst, then we we do have a little overlap with Willowdale, which well, mind you, Willowdale isn’t on that side.
Ellin Bessner: No do Willowdale.
Ari Laskin: Well, Willowdale, you have Stan Cho, who is running again in that riding. He’s been Minister of Tourism and Gaming. Outside of that role. He has been a very strong supporter of our community. He has shown up to every single event that I’ve seen both on the paper in the papers and on TV. He has spoken in the legislature on behalf of our community. So that is also a riding that I’m really watching. I think that could be a close one. But, to be honest with you, I think Stan will probably pull ahead on this.
The other one that I’m watching, like I said, is the riding where I grew up, which is Thornhill. Thornhill is a riding that is near and dear to my heart. It’s a swing riding. I remember when it was first won by Peter Sherman for the Ontario Provincial Conservatives and then won by Peter Kent for the Federal Conservatives.
Ellin Bessner: You worked on both of their campaigns. Just for disclosure here, just for all.
Ari Laskin: Disclosure, yes, I worked on both of their campaigns, and it was easy because I only had to remember one first name. Just call them both Peter. But it was a riding that, like I said, is a very interesting riding because you have a collection of different communities that all have a very strong voice. It’s a riding that has changed a lot since I’ve left there many years ago. But I think that we’re looking at an MPP there who has gone above and beyond to ensure that not only has she represented our community, community.
Ellin Bessner: We’re talking Laura Smith. Yeah, we’re talking Laura Smith.
Ari Laskin: Yes. Laura has been an incredibly strong and loud, loud advocate for our community.
Ellin Bessner: Is she not guaranteed to get back in?
Ari Laskin: I think she is. I’m watching it more out of self-interest though.
Ellin Bessner: What about Andrea Khanjin in Barrie? Yes, she’s going to get back in. She’s a Jewish candidate.
Ari Laskin: Well, you know what. It’s funny that you should ask that. I have a good friend of mine who lives up in Innisfil, and he just moved up there, and he said, ‘So what can you tell me about Andrea?’ And I can say, when I was a political staffer, Andrea was a new MPP. And she was very, very interested in “Well, can we get the Premier up to the Chabad up in Innisfil? Can we get the Premier to come to a Shabbat dinner?’ and I clearly remember saying to her, ‘I’m not sure he’s going to like the chicken that they’re serving there that night. It’s a little dry.’
And Andrea represents a young Jewish family up in Innisfil. She just had a child, which Muscle Tov was is wonderful. And it’s something that she has been very vocal about ensuring that there’s a vibrant support for the entire community of Barrie Innisfil. So I would be watching that riding as well.
Ellin Bessner: Anybody in Ontario east, like Ottawa, anybody that we should worry about or notice?
Ari Laskin: Ottawa, you could say every single MPP is somebody to watch there because that’s going to be a competitive fighting ground. I would say it’s typically a Liberal stronghold. It’ll be interesting to see what the Tories are able to do up there. Currently, they don’t have any representation in the National Capital Region.
The other ridings to watch, if you want to go west now, would be some of the ridings in Hamilton. Hamilton West-Ancaster-Dundas is one that I’m definitely watching. You have, for the Progressive Conservatives, John Demik. He has a real shot of upsetting that area. I think that neighbouring riding of Hamilton Centre was really thrown off and divided when their MPP was booted out of the NDP caucus. Sarah Jama. And I’m not sure that there’s such a big difference between Sarah Jama’s views and what I’ve heard coming from that campaign over there. They are really trying to woo Sarah Jama’s supporters away from her over into this new candidate. It is definitely a riding that I would watch.
Ellin Bessner: Want to bring you in, Emma, because we don’t really talk about the NDP much because we just heard, you know, they’re not friendly to the Jewish community, most of them, except for, you know, how Dr. Herschel Berman was. What will it say to you if Sarah Jama gets back in?
Emma Cunningham: Well, I don’t know. These conversations always make me uncomfortable because I’m the left-wing representative on this panel, and I find myself constantly praising Conservatives while I’m in here, which I need to sit with a bit. But it will be very hurtful for me if Sarah Jama is reelected. Like Ari, who does not love the NDP candidate in that riding either, I think Sarah Jama has made enough of a name for herself that she may actually pull some votes away from the NDP candidate, which is unusual for an independent. Although we did see Jody Wilson-Raybould take the 2019 federal election as an independent, that’s quite unusual. So for an independent candidate to be able to pull votes away from the NDP is highly unusual. But I think there is a chance that the NDP will lose that riding because of a split vote there, which is almost unheard of. So I don’t disagree that there’s a chance for another candidate to take that riding and cause a bit of an upset.
Ellin Bessner: There are independent Jewish Voices and a lot of Jewish pro-Palestinian supporters of Sarah Jama working very hard to campaign for her in that area. So they are part of the audience, too.
Emma Cunningham: To say that Jews aren’t voting for the NDP, I think, is a bit of a misnomer. I mentioned I’m uncomfortable with some of these conversations. But you know, despite the fact that I’m praising Conservative candidates in this conversation and I’ll tell you some of the races I’m watching and a lot of them are for Conservatives, I won’t be voting for the Conservatives because I’m not a one-issue voter, and that’s true for a lot of Jews. So if you are aligned with the NDP on most of their positions and your one sticking point is their treatment of Jews, that may not be a line in the sand for you.
Ellin Bessner: Or Israel-Palestine.
Emma Cunningham: Or Israel-Palestine, right. I have my line in the sand. I walked out of the NDP over what I perceive to be antisemitism. But that’s not necessarily going to be the same line for everybody else. They might feel that there’s enough good in the NDP platform that they’re comfortable overlooking one issue that they don’t feel is a safety risk and just a point of disagreement. So I think I said this at the end of last year too. We hear a lot of Jews here saying that they’re going to be voting for the Conservatives and Conservatives and Conservatives. But I heard the same language out of the U.S. prior to their election, and the vast majority [of U.S. Jews] have come out voting Democrat. So I think it sounds like the Jewish community is going Conservative, but I’m not sure that’s actually going to be the case.
I’ll be waiting with great interest on the results to see what kind of happens there for races. I’m watching Hamilton Centre for sure. I’m also looking at Ottawa Centre, Joel Harden, who, to come back to my story about public versus private. When I left the NDP, privately, Joel Harden was very supportive. He was in meetings. He reached out to me. He talked about being uncomfortable with the candidate in Ajax who named the street after a Nazi, very supportive behind the scenes, and then came out publicly saying that he knocks on doors and asks any Jews if they are willing to condemn Israel, which is kind of the definition of antisemitism, asking Jews to be responsible for a country we don’t live in. So I’m watching that race. I’m curious to see what’s going to happen there. [The riding has a new NDP candidate: Joel Harden is not running for re-election, as he wants to run federally for the NDP.]
A few other ones that I’m watching include Jill Dunlop, who I know a little bit from when she was Minister of Colleges and Universities. She and I connected several times over antisemitism. The first time I met her was because I had spoken to my MPP about something, and within a few hours, she called me from her personal cell phone at the airport on her way to her child’s graduation in Europe because she was so concerned about what I had to say. She kept in touch and asked me for advice on things and actually took that advice. While she’s not in that portfolio anymore, I have a very positive view of Jill Dunlop.
Ellin Bessner: You mentioned education. I wanted to talk about education because this is both in your backgrounds professionally as well as activists. One of the main flashpoints, of course, has been let’s do campus first, colleges and university antisemitism. The province is directly responsible for this stuff, students and professors. It’s all under provincial legislation. Is this at all an issue for our community to hold the governments accountable for why they haven’t done more to crack down on campus encampments, antisemitism, abuse of podium, funding for these things, you know, à la what the Americans want to do, which is take away funding for universities that allow hate? So I want to start with you, Ari, because our listeners may not know, but you actually worked for this portfolio. Then you worked for Career Colleges Ontario when you left government. We have a lot to talk with you about.
Ari Laskin: Yeah, so first of all, I vividly remember, Emma, Minister Dunlop, going on the phone while she’s on her way to her daughter’s graduation and almost going to be late for her flight because she was talking to you on the phone about what you had to say. So I’m glad that that call went through. I’m glad that she was able to make a connection, and I’m even happier that you remember that call because I think that’s something that sort of is indicative of a lot of the members that I had the honour of working with. Onto the question at hand, though, with the university and college encampments, I do want to make a point of clarification, and this is by no way a defence of what happened over the course of this past academic year. The province has full authority over college campuses, not university campuses.
Publicly funded universities are publicly funded to the tune of roughly, at most, I believe, you’re looking at about 35%. The rest of that money comes from their own revenues, their own funding. So for the province to go in and say, ‘You cannot do this, you have to shut this down’, is very difficult for them to do unless you want to go and put forward other legislation, which is a very slippery slope to start going and saying, ‘Well, we don’t like this, so we’re just going to go and change this’. It’s a slippery slope to start doing that. I don’t disagree with you, though, that why is the province not stepping in and doing more to sort of at least put that threat over a lot of these university campuses’ heads? You saw right before Minister Dunlop got shuffled out of that portfolio over into the Ministry of Education, she actually put the gauntlet down to president Merrick Gertler at the University of Toronto and said, ‘If you’re not going to do this, then we’re going to find a way to put forward legislation that will supersede the University of Toronto Act’, which is what would have to happen on a case-by-case basis.
Emma Cunningham: I don’t think education at any level is an election issue right now. I think maybe the Jewish community has a more heightened interest in what’s happening on university campuses. But I do think there has to be a really careful balance when it comes to debating ideas on college and university campuses. I think you have to draw the line at hate speech. I think you have to draw the line in encampments. The provincial government likes to talk about back to basics, and I don’t think university campuses should ever be a back-to-basics kind of environment, but they should at least be worried about keeping classes on topic. So debate ideas all you want, but if people are signing up for a math class, don’t throw geopolitics at them.
Ellin Bessner: You talked about post-secondary, but what about public school safety for Jewish people? That is also a provincially mandated subject. If anything, school boards, it’s a big topic. Now, is that at all factoring into the vote or the debate?
Ari Laskin: I haven’t seen it anywhere, much to my chagrin. I would have to agree with Emma on this, that both K to 12 and post-secondary is not the primary issue that’s motivating the Ontario electorate in this election. But I think looking at reforming the Education Act is something that should be on people’s agendas because, at the end of the day, it’s a public school. It should have public oversight to ensure that you’re there to learn, you’re not there to be indoctrinated in terms of a political belief. One way or another, you’re there to learn.
Emma Cunningham: To Ari Laskin’s points, back to the basics. I think when the government says getting back to the basics, it’s ensuring that schools are there to teach our students how to succeed in a modern-day society, in a modern-day life.
Emma Cunningham: Yeah. The use of the word indoctrination makes me a bit uncomfortable because of how often that word is used to try and convince people to not respect human rights. So that word gets my back up a little bit, but I think, you know, succeeding in life and succeeding in society, diversity and tolerance are a huge part of that conversation. And I do think that’s relevant everywhere you go in the world, including school campuses. But teaching respect for one another, teaching tolerance, teaching human rights, is not the same thing as, you know, getting into foreign affairs in a math class.
Ari Laskin: I would agree.
Ellin Bessner: Okay, so you said, Ari, that’s not what’s getting on people’s radar for this vote, for this election. What is? Let’s just finish by saying what is making people pay attention, if anything, to this February 2025 early election in Ontario.
Ari Laskin: To be honest. I think a lot of uncertainty. President Trump this morning or late last night when he was having his Big Mac or whatever he had for dinner, said 25% tariffs on all automobile parts, pharmaceuticals, agricultural parts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And who knows, tomorrow he could change his mind and say, you know what, now let’s just do that. Maybe it’ll be a 5% tariff or maybe we won’t have a tariff on this, and we’ll put a tariff on something else.
Emma Cunningham: The issue that I think is at the heart of the election is affordability. And I think the uncertainty that Ari is talking about falls under that because we don’t know what these tariffs are going to do to our cost of living. And I think the number one thing that’s driving everything right now is that prices are going up, wages are not going up with them, and people are scared. And you know, I work in advertising, I used to work on the Chevrolet account. I know a lot of, a lot of my family works at GM. I know this. You know, this has a lot of people really afraid right now for their jobs and what that’s going to mean. To me, affordability is the big issue, and the uncertainty of what’s happening in the US is a fallout of that.
Ellin Bessner: Yeah. And Jewish issues are fine because we care about them, but when it comes to the bigger macro picture, not so much.
Ari Laskin: But I would say the bigger macro picture are still Jewish issues. Like, I know a lot of Jewish people that are worried about how am I going to be able to sell my products down into the States if they’re going to put a 25% tariff on the widget that I produce or whatever the case is. The big macro issues are the Jewish issues as well. We also have a couple on the side that are equally as important.
Emma Cunningham: Yeah, we’re not one-issue voters. Right. So issues are issues.
Ellin Bessner: Maybe federally people are, but conventionally not. And that’s actually very important. Okay, thank you again for sharing your insights with us.
Emma Cunningham: Thank you. And see you back again for the federal election.
Ari Laskin: Can’t wait.
Ellin Bessner: Oh, my God. Can’t wait. Yeah, we’ve got you now. You’re on my Rolodex, if that’s such a thing.
Show Notes
What we talked about:
- Read why “bubble legislation” is now a hot-button campaign issue for some Jewish candidates in the Ontario election, in The CJN.
- The CJN’s political columnist Josh Lieblein opines on a winter election, with Trump’s tariffs part of the campaign.
- A close race in Toronto-St. Paul’s, by Jonathan Rothman in The CJN.
Credits
- Host and writer: Ellin Bessner (@ebessner)
- Production team: Zachary Kauffman (producer), Michael Fraiman (executive producer)
- Music: Dov Beck-Levine
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