Yesterday, we brought you a story on three antisemitic incidents that happened within days of each other at two different Toronto middle schools. (If you haven’t listened yet, hear Part 1 of this series here.) Two of those incidents happened to one boy at Charles H. Best Junior Middle School. Today, he and his parents are speaking out publicly for the first time to offer their reaction to the incidents.
And their reaction isn’t what you might expect.
After their son was targeted by one kid who formed a swastika out of classroom blocks, and two others who separately gave the Nazi salute to him, parents Yaniv and Shirra Berliner felt compelled to report the incidents to the school. But after seeing the swift public condemnation, the Berliners are angry with how the school and the board handled it all without hearing their side of the story. The family is wrestling with complicated issues involved in the fight against antisemitism in schools, but they believe these incidents were just tomfoolery and ignorance by a bunch of teenagers who didn’t grasp what they were doing—and they wish the whole controversy would just blow over already.
All three of them join The CJN Daily podcast for an exclusive interview. Listen and subscribe above.
Watch the video here:
What we talked about:
- Listen to Part 1 of this series, “Antisemitism in Toronto schools, Part 1: Why are we still seeing Nazi symbols in classrooms?” at thecjn.ca
- Read Ellin’s print story on the incidents at thecjn.ca
- Read “Debunking the Amnesty Report” at agpiworld.com
Episode Transcript:
Note: Transcripts are generated automatically by a computer. Because we can’t always read them through entirely, they may contain some errors.
Teenager:
No, it was in December when I was at recess when that kid’s brother sent him the article saying, quote, Israel doesn’t exist.
Shirra Berliner:
This is from, like, The Guardian.
Teenager:
Yeah.
Parents:
I mean, that’s more like anti-Israel. But then the Heil Hitler. Was that a repeated episode or was that just once?
Teenager:
Pretty sure it was twice.
Ellin Bessner:
That is the actual Jewish teenager from Toronto’s Charles H. Best Middle School, describing a series of upsetting incidents that he’s experienced in the last few months. The Board, the principal, even Jewish groups call it antisemitism. There’s talk of it being called a hate crime. They’ve launched an investigation. They’re bringing in training. The kids who did it are facing consequences. And certainly what happened to their son definitely angered his parents, Dr. Yaniv and Shirra Berliner. But they’re now convinced that at least some of the swastika in the classroom and maybe even the Heil Hitler salutes were, in their words, just tomfoolery and ignorance by a bunch of teenagers who didn’t understand the significance of what they were doing. That’s why even though at first the couple thought it was a good idea to report it to the school, now, with all the attention these incidents have sparked, the Berliners are conflicted about the impact it’s having on the school, on the boys and on the neighbourhood. So they’re speaking out publicly about their experiences to the CJN Daily.
Shirra Berliner:
I have really mixed feelings about it because I really feel like it was just not intentional to cause.
Teenager:
Yes, I think it was definitely pure stupidity. Pure stupidity.
Shirra Berliner:
I think if these kids thought, I think they just don’t know that it causes a visceral response.
Ellin Bessner:
I’m Ellin Bessner, and this is what Jewish Canada Sounds like for Thursday, February 10, 2022. Welcome to the CJN Daily, sponsored by Metropia.
Shirra Berliner says it took her son a few days to tell her what had been happening in his school. It came out when they were driving somewhere in her car and he spilled the beans. Her son is one of two or three Jewish students in the class, and this is the first time anything like it has happened to him. He did attend a private Jewish school before switching to the public system during the pandemic. They also say the case wasn’t handled in a way they were comfortable with. And if you didn’t hear yesterday’s episode with parts of the story, make sure to listen for the background. Coming up, the Berliners and their son will be here with their side of things. But first, here’s what’s making use elsewhere in Canada right now.
Karen Mock:
I’m Karen Mock in Toronto. And this is what Jewish Canada sounds like.
Ellin Bessner:
An NDP Member of Parliament from Edmonton wants Ottawa to carefully study the recent report by Amnesty International, which calls Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians as apartheid. The MP, Heather McPherson, spoke in the House of Commons Wednesday. She said Canada should stop selling weapons to Israel and ban buying products from the territories, which she says Israel occupies. McPherson says Canada has the obligation to stand up for human rights. Israel and other countries and some Canadian Conservative Members of Parliament, including Marty Moranyz and Melissa Lantsman, have dismissed the Amnesty report as antisemitic. The Liberals have not taken a public position, and neither have the NDP.
And joining me now from Toronto are Shira and Dr. Yaniv Berliner and their son. And they’ve asked us not to disclose his name, just his voice.
Can you describe what you know about what happened?
Shirra Berliner:
So a couple of weeks ago, our son, I guess we’re in the car or something. And he just said, ‘Yeah, something really weird happened the other day at school, I don’t know.’ And he said that you kind of didn’t know how to feel about it. He said some kids got his attention. And he turned around and there were two kids in their seats giving the Heil Hitler salute and saying, ‘Oh, we’re just asking the teacher a question. And so I said, ‘How did it make you feel?’ And he said at the time, ‘I was just like I was just fuming inside and I wanted to get up and hit them, but I didn’t want to disrespect the class and cause a scene. So I just kind of got back to my work and ignored it.’ And we were thinking, do we want to report it? Do we want to talk to the teachers? Their school has a bit of an issue with calling people snitches. That’s kind of this culture of if you go to a teacher, then you’re called a snitch. So we decided we can’t just do nothing. And so he said that he would talk to them himself and say, ‘Don’t ever do that again. I don’t like it. I got really mad’ or at least confront them. And so he did, to one of the students who he’s actually friends with, but the other student who’s actually a really complete acquaintance in the class, he never confronted. So then anyway, we just kind of went on and then last maybe like a couple of weeks later, he was working on his own in class. And so kids were working in a group. So there was like a group of kids working with these cubes that you put together. And it was after the protest in Ottawa. And then they got his attention. It was after International Holocaust Remembrance Day Jan. 27. And so he turned around to look and a student was holding up like this object that they had fabricated. They’re called linking cubes. And it’s like a geometry tool that they use in class. And the student was holding it up. Correct. And he just,like, went into kind of shock. And he said, yeah, he kind of froze, really. And he’s like, oh, I don’t want to tell you. I don’t want to make a big deal. He’s like, because I know people will get suspended for this. And like, oh, I don’t want to go through that. And we’re like, well, we have to tell this is affecting your ability to learn right now.
Dr. Yaniv Berliner:
So at this point, we’re not clear if this is hateful. Both incidents, when they made the swastika, it was a substitute teacher. So kind of a circus. Right. And the credit needs to be given because one of the boys saw this and broke up the swastika. It was a group of, let’s say, four to six kids. So at this point, we’re left with ‘There’s some hateful symbolism at the very least, and he’s upset by it. So we wrote a letter to his teacher, who is very excellent, and we wrote a letter on Thursday evening and 5:50 on Friday morning she responded and forwarded to the principal. She was also made aware before of the Heil Hitler situation, which was the preceding episode. So that’s kind of how it came to be that there were these hateful incidents, and we felt like something had to be done about it, but we weren’t sure if it was tomfoolery or if it was hate.
Schirra Berliner:
But I felt like it still needed to be discussed as a class. I felt like there was, like, a gap in their thinking that they were fooling around, making interesting shapes. They definitely made the swastika on purpose. But, yeah, we just thought it needed to have some connection between the role of images and their visceral response.
Ellin Bessner;
So let me step in here for a second. So has the school, your child, had any Holocaust training as a class or anti-racism training? I mean, they’re in grade eight now, right?
Shirra and Dr. Yaniv Berliner:
They’ve had a lot. But has it specifically? Yeah, they’ve had Holocaust they had Holocaust education the week before. So it’s come out.
Ellin Bessner:
The TDSB, and Jewish organizations have gone public about it. There was a press conference. How has this spiralled and how do you feel about this? Basically, you weren’t happy with how it was dealt with within the school because you weren’t able to tell your whole story before it went berserk.
Shirra and Dr. Yaniv Berliner:
There was zero communication. We basically were not communicated with at all. We called. We called several times. We were told ‘It’s being it’s under investigation’ So that was on Friday. On Friday, about 3:30 PM she [the principal] called my phone and said, ‘Hi, I’d like to have your son come in as part of the investigation on Monday morning. He doesn’t have to stay at school if he’s not comfortable, but come in to talk to me on Monday.’ And I said, ‘Okay, I’ll join him’. And she said, ‘No, you can’t join because of COVID’. And I said, ‘Okay, I’ll Zoom in’. And she responded that she prefers to do investigations without parents. And I said, ‘Well, he’s pretty upset about this. And I feel like my husband and I are the right people to be there’. And she said, ‘Well, I prefer to conduct my interviews without parents’. So it just became this. And then I just said, ‘You know what? I am really uncomfortable with this. I was uncomfortable. I think I have to go to the Superintendent.’ And she said, ‘Go right ahead’. And I just said, ‘Okay, goodbye!’ I was fuming. And that was it. That was the last time we heard
Ellin Bessner:
The TDSB released a letter to all the parents,
Shirra Berliner:
Which I feel like they should have asked us first or had us look at it. They didn’t ask us anything.
Teenager:
Yeah, I just got a bunch of messages. Yeah. You’re on the news!
Shirra Berliner:
No, but the letter, they should have got us to see the letter before sending it out. So it’s caused a trust issue. Like, now I feel like forget it. I’m not going to tell you anything. I’ll just go through text messages to get people’s phone numbers and call myself. Yeah, forget it. I’ve never going to the administration.
Dr. Yaniv Berliner:
So then through a mutual friend, we heard that the boy that held up the swastika is ravaged by grief about what he did, that it doesn’t represent his family at all, that he has an aunt who is Jewish and cousins who are Jewish. So we were upset that this boy now has gone through this investigation. They called his house and they spoke to his dad, and they said, we’re investigating your son for a hate crime. So certainly there was no hate crime here. He’s like a little stupid. This was stupid, but it wasn’t done with hate.
Shirra Berliner:
And that was our initial intentions to figure out what’s going on here. Is it hate or is it just, like, immaturity or carelessness? And clearly it looks like it’s carelessness for the most part. We know a couple of the kids involved in this, and they feel very bad about this.
Ellin Bessner:
I hear you pulled your son out of school.
Shirra Berliner:
For a while, we thought that with our son leaving school, it would cause less drama, but then it ended up causing more drama. It was like this other kid was being targeted as saying, someone’s leaving school because of you. And so then we said, you know what? That was the wrong. Like, leaving was probably causing more drama. So then we pulled back and asked our son if he can be brave and just go back and deal with it. I think we can be part of the solution to bringing the community back together.
Ellin Bessner:
So what comes next now? What do you want to happen next?
Dr. Yavin Berliner:
Okay, what do you want to happen next?
Teenager:
Well, I’m going back to school tomorrow, right? I probably just want everything to blow over right. The kid that did it apologized. He feels super guilty. That’s the most they can do. Yeah.
Dr.Yaniv Berliner:
Yeah. That’s great. This was not this kid’s intention, right? Yeah. It’s been blown out of proportion. This was not the response that we wanted but the question of the hail Hitler that’s still pending. I think we’re just going to leave that because too much negative attention. I don’t know. I think I would just call his Dad or something.
Ellin Bessner: I’m very sorry that this has happened this way but the Jewish community has been the target of the most hate crimes of any other ethnic groups. Right? You know that? So the fact that this has just happened to you but it’s been happening since mostly May and September three or four times a week, at all kinds of reports in the TDSB and schools across Ontario. So the fact that you put a face to it is very important and courageous. So I really appreciate you sharing the stories with us
And that’s what Jewish Canada sounds like for this episode of the CJN Daily sponsored by Metropia. Integrity, community Quality and customer care. Today’s listener shout out goes to Martin Ginsherman in Thornhill, Ontario. He wrote in to say that he was upset about our episode covering the truckers protest. Thanks for writing in and telling me about your experiences going shopping in your neighbourhood while knowing that some people may not be vaccinated.
And we’ll end the episode with an update on a story I mentioned earlier in the week about that new Private Members bill being introduced in Parliament that would ban Holocaust denial. Well, on Wednesday, a Conservative MP from Saskatoon, Kevin Waugh, rose in the House of Commons to explain why he was introducing the bill. It passed first reading but it still got a long way to go.
Kevin Waugh:
From early 1941 to the Spring of 1945, 6 million Jewish children, women and men were murdered in a state sponsored genocide we now remember as the Holocaust. Holocaust distortion, denial, antisemitism, must be confronted with the strongest opposition and condemnation. Ignorance fuels intolerance. We must continue to teach the truth of the past. Education is the safeguard of history. We must face history with courage and boldly call out and confront intolerance whenever it exists. The passage of this bill will protect the truth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Credits
The CJN Daily is written and hosted by Ellin Bessner (@ebessner on Twitter). Victoria Redden is the producer. Michael Fraiman is the executive producer. Our theme music is by Dov Beck-Levine. Our title sponsor is Metropia. We’re a member of The CJN Podcast Network; find more great Jewish podcasts at thecjn.ca.